The Negative Side of Promotions
In my last blog I promised that I would address some of the frustrations and problems players might face in using casino promotions. I really did not want to write on this subject, but I was getting criticism that I was “Little Miss Sunshine,” that I was presenting a too-rosy picture for a situation that was really getting more difficult for players who wanted to cut their losses.
I have always stressed that casinos are not non-profit businesses – at least they don’t plan to be such. And so in recent years when they started cutting video poker paytables and reducing comps and other player benefits, I chided other players about talking about “the greedy casinos.” I suggested they adjust to the new casino environment by “complaining with their feet.” When a casino makes too many cutbacks, then look for another playground. In the meantime, I was trying to help by detailing in this blog many of the options so they would have a better chance of finding a friendlier casino atmosphere.
I have always been aware that casinos take notice of players who work against their goal of achieving profits. It started long ago with countermeasures against blackjack players who could beat the house by counting cards. Skilled video poker players stayed under the casino radar for much longer but finally caught the attention of math-savvy executives – the ones we call bean counters. These knowledgeable players started seeing actual barring of members in this group, sometimes with the casino showing their extreme abhorrence of these players by instigating very-public dramatic embarrassing “perp walks” from their machine to the door. Some casinos seemed to revel in this hunt for their “enemies.” I remember one incident when a casino ran a very juicy promotion, seemingly just for the purpose of seeing who showed up to take advantage of it because they immediately marched security into the high limit area to escort out all participants.
Fortunately most casinos finally decided there was no need for such public humiliation and also realized that it was very negative PR, treating players like criminals when they were doing nothing illegal. So then came the more private techniques, red-flagging the accounts of “undesirables” with a no-mail label. With no mailers, these players lost the extra value of bounce-back free play, food and show coupons, and other benefits. Some casinos even went further by deactivating players cards, wiping out their ability to earn club points for their play and thus earn any benefits. Other casinos found a new weapon, the dreaded DNI account label; Do Not Invite means the player would not be able to participate in special promotions. Recently one Las Vegas casino conglomerate added a shocking rule to some of their promotions, actually mentioning “advantage players” and how their company reserved the right to limit or restrict their participation.
I have mostly refrained from criticizing these countermeasures in the past even though Brad and I have suffered through some of them ourselves. We are disappointed when we can no longer play at one of our long-time favorite casinos, but we have accepted that a business has the right to adopt policies that will protect its bottom line profits. However, I am starting to wonder if many casino policy-makers don’t realize that countermeasures don’t stay private in this time when social media is so overwhelmingly powerful. Many gamblers already have a suspicious attitude toward casinos because they believe that they aren’t “fair” and don’t give the players even a sporting chance of winning. But then they read on the gambling forums about casinos taking action against players just because they have tried to become a little smarter about their gambling, studying to make better game choices and thus lose less.
“The casino is going to punish us if we use our brain?” The negative PR is explosive. All those casino ads make many players laugh. “We love locals!” –unless you win. “Start 2007 in a Winning Way” – but don’t take advantage of our promotions to do this.
It seems to many players that casino just don’t want you to win – period. I had a recent experience at a casino that told me I didn’t get a mailer that month because I had won during the previous qualification period. I didn’t remember hitting any jackpots so I asked how much I had won during that three-month look-back time.
“$248,” they said, after checking my account on their computer. Really, I thought!
I wonder if the casinos increasingly micro-managing of benefits and their restrictions on individual players may be costing them more than they realize. Most gamblers instinctively know – or learned over time – that they will lose more than they win in the long run. But they are willing to pay for the thrill of knowing that sometimes they will win. And down through the years, wise casino management knew this – and congratulated their players when they hit jackpots. If the jackpot was a really big one, they would give them a free room to stay a couple of extra nights and throw in some comped gourmet meals. They knew that in the long run they would be getting back a lot or even all of that jackpot money. The old-timers running the casinos in the past may have been a little too generous with the comps but they knew the power of good PR. It seems to me that the new younger executives may know the math better but I wonder if they have any understanding of how gamblers think and how they react when they see evidence that the casino just hates to see people win.
Am I just an old grouchy senior longing for the “good ole’ days”?
My wife & I travel to Vegas from England twice a year. We stay for 14 nights & basically gamble. We stay downtown.
When we first got a players card & later contacted the casino, they gave us the first week free. At the end we were comped the 2nd week. This was not that long ago, 2005. We have never been high rollers, slots, VP & $5 BJ. Since then the comps have steadily declined, no free gifts & at times we were made to feel we were being greedy or unreasonable for asking for what we always received before, even though we gamble much more now.
It’s my opinion that this is simply because, the customers in Vegas are no longer just gamblers. Walk down Fremont & see how many strollers & kids there are.
Have a look at Trip Adviser, see how many foolish people want to take their kids & dogs to Vegas. Talk to people on the plane & listen to their plans. Plans that don’t include gambling.
I think this explains why casinos now hire the “bean counters” who have no experience of casinos, only hotels. The Downtown Grand is a classic example, they aim at a clientele that does not exist downtown.
Most casinos now have a vastly different points level for VP than regular slots.
Yes we are “grouchy old seniors” too but let’s all remember how lucky we are if we can still visit Vegas regularly & have the $ to gamble. Even luckier is we win!
Good old days in Vegas were great! I have been going there for 30 years, the new polices are not desirable and even though I have more money then ever, I just don’t find it drawing me anymore but new players don’t know the difference and we will slowly fade into the past …. kind of sad.
I am in agreement with Neil D. The casinos also have looked at what the younger generation is doing for entertainment, and it most certainly is not “penny slots” as Kevin suggested. If you have a set # of dollars that you spend in Vegas, I am guessing that most seniors are not wining, dining and clubbing with their dollars as the younger ones are. This form of income also includes playing while slightly altered by drinking.
On a recent trip to Vegas, we were given coupons to visit the new lounge at the Orleans, the appetizers were FREE, Oh yeah the was a catch, with purchase of alcoholic drinks ONLY. $$ I returned those coupons when I checked out and also made a comment that they are losing business because some people don’t drink.
The bean counters will look at the total $$ and won’t really care.
If we go on a trip to the casino, there is always a budget, it is for enjoyment and fun.
We love to hear Jean’s gambling stories vicariously, because the bean counters know that MOST of the patrons are there and will probably return to leave at least a few $$ in the long run.
MO
These math whizzes don’t know that 5% of $ 500 is more than 10% of $100! They don’t understand loss leaders!
Pennsylvania casino taxes are 52% not 33%
Wife and I traveled to Green Valley Ranch every year from Maryland.
Shuttle flight to Philly, long cross country flight….
Last trip to Vegas was 2008.
We took $20 k or so for a week stay.
Wife hit two $1 royals on same upright day one and day two – deuces machine in high limit room – uprights.
Then $5000. slot hand pay on $5 (2 credit) slot machine.
GVR didn’t want us back.
Wife not even close to being ‘advantage player’ (she doesn’t know what that even means) – pure luck – both holding 3 clubs btw.
I lost thousands then and years before. GVR was way ahead on us as a couple.
We’ll never go to Vegas again.
A C if we must, with small bankroll for fun, or the local Maryland casino 10 minutes from home that has FULL PAY V.P.
We run a successful business too, you gotta know how to treat people – It’s NOT JUST MONEY right now…….without consequences of later.
Analogy:
Death by a thousand small cuts or lop off the head ?
Vegas bean counters prefer the latter – obviously.
Ron and Iris
Ocean City, Maryland
I am old enough to remember good pay tables on VP and I also remember the many comfortable flights we took from the east coast to Las Vegas . The airlines have managed in every way possible from no leg room and cramped seats to extra costs for bags etc to make flying as miserable as possible , yet people are still flying in larger numbers than 20 years ago . Same with bad pay tables in casinos whether it’s VP or blackjack , people don’t seem to mind or care or are just clueless . The tables are full and players crowd the many banks of 7/5 VP machines , so why would the casinos make any changes . They are after all a business and once they discovered that players don’t boycott those machines , those pay tables are there to stay . We the players , in large numbers , could force a change by keeping those seats empty . Same with the airlines . If we all would stop flying for a time , unless absolutely necessary , changes would happen there rather quickly to . Of course I know this will never happen . People have already accepted the downgrading that casinos and airlines did .
Speaking of grouchy seniors, Stations just cut back on what you get on Old Fart Wednesdays. You used to get 6X points on VP and 10X on slots. Now, you get “up to” that amount–and the kiosk doesn’t even give you a pseudo-spin or something like that. It just tells you what your multiplier is. Mine was 3X today, which is even worse than it sounds because 3X is what you get no matter what anyway. There’s also a dumb rule where the kiosk doesn’t let you have the free cup of coffee if you’re not a local–you have to stand in line at the player’s club for a coupon.
Upcoming good promo day–South Park will have double points on MLK day, and the U-Spin promo will be in effect that day as well. I’ve averaged $17 a spin (while, admittedly, getting my butt kicked) so far. Players named Kenny are killed instantly when they enter the property, but otherwise, South Park is a pretty good gamble.
I agree the casinos are “shooting themselves in the foot” by reducing payouts, charging for everything they can, and cutting back on “freebies”. We used to go to Vegas 6 times a year. Now we go twice, maybe. I don’t really need to go to Vegas to gamble and spend $900.00 on airfare. I can drive to downtown Detroit and lose my money. I’ve had it with Vegas!
I’m waiting for Las Vegas casinos to start reducing the hand pay threshold to something well below $1200 to increase the hustling for tips, as I have seen in many casinos in Delaware ($250, back in 2008) and Colorado ($350, currently in Cripple Creek). If the W-2G threshold had kept pace with inflation, it would be about $4500 now, not $1200. Gamblers will be pushed to what the market will bear, which is why resort and parking fees proliferate.
I have to agree with the observations about casinos cutting benefits to customers who win, even if it is just in the short term and at a level that still makes them a loser for the year. It takes about twice as long for me to get to Las Vegas by plane as it does to get to Cripple Creek by bus, and from now on, I’ll save my money for Las Vegas.
Casino greed isn’t the sole cause of poorer benefits for gamblers. Increasingly high state taxes on casinos has to hurt the casino’s bottom line, and that’s why 6:5 blackjack has been rolled out in Maryland. Nevada and New Jersey tax casino earnings at 7%, though NJ casinos are supposed to kick in an additional 1.5%, though the law has been changed to let them spend that money on the casino rather than building affordable housing in Atlantic City. Pennsylvania taxes slots at 33%, and Maryland taxes at 66%.
Jean, you should help others “vote with their feet” and name casinos who have cut you off or otherwise told you your play is not wanted.
Finding value in casinos, land based or online, is harder than it used to be. But you can still find good promotions and deals. The key is to play these fairly and not get equally greedy as a player. I’ve never heard of a casino walking a patron for winning a jackpot… Unless there were other underlying concerns. Maybe the player played for 37 hrs straight to get the jackpot? Maybe they drank excessively and were rude to staff or other players? I’ve won jackpots before and the casino got all over me with freebies to get me to stay, not leave!
Love your blog and books Jean. Maybe we can catch up when I’m in Las Vegas in may this year.
My snooty in-laws who take the $10,000 apiece Viking Cruses curl up their noses at our yearly trips to Las Vegas. We used to go several times a year but that’s another story. All the shows are filthy-naked. One cited “Jubilee” as a prime example of this. We have terrific dining and entertainment every time! Our one wish is to have a significant win once before we stop coming to Vegas due to old age, in about 10 years. That will shut them all up. It will have to be a machine win as we do not play live tables.
Mike and Linda S. from Michigan
This is a recent true story. Staying with 2 rooms of guests at Main Street Station , I was directed to leave the premises after being tracked down and detained by security for 45 minutes. All because I checked 5 cent ultimate x multipliers left behind on a few of their machines. I was totally embarrassed in front of my family. I was allowed to stay when they found out that 90% of my play was at tables or other slot and video poker. Needless to say I will NEVER step foot inside that place again and have drastically reduced play at all Boyd properties. I was told I was an advantage player and I was not welcome. That is until they saw my expenses I had incurred with my family and friends. I encourage others to join me in protesting treatment of innocent customers who are publicly shamed!
Hey Kevin
Your comment of Jan 8 is spot on….and also the reason I almost exclusively stay at the Southpoint my 3-4 trips to Vegas per year. Michael Gaughan was raised in the industry by his father and knows how to make the gambler feel like they are appreciated as well as give them a fighting chance to break even $wise in the long run. Their casino hosts are fair and accommodating.
Advantage players who approach their gambling like a job are few and far between. (I’ve long believed that most players who consider themselves perfect AP players, really aren’t.) But, for the “enlightened” gambler, we’re just looking for a fair shake. We enjoy the action, the atmosphere, the food and all the rest. We just don’t want to get killed financially trying to enjoy the “good life” during our vacations.
The problem is that players still go to casinos who screw them.
They settle for the now less than decent paybacks comps etc. For many years I’ve been a member of VPAC and VPFree. Players now post pictures of their big wins on machines with bad paytables. Addiction is what the casinos rely on. So many people belly ache on the websites and then play the inferior games anyway.
One thing that Vegas casinos don’t seem to comprehend any more is that a player may be skilled enough to not lose much or, God forfend, WIN (sorry, casinos, I didn’t mean to swear), but that player will still consume rooms, meals, show tickets, etc., all of which are presumably sold at a profit. Drive that player away and you lose all that ancillary income. Also, Mr. Savvy VP Player might have a wife or dotty uncle, etc. who just loooves them slots. So while Mr. SVPP is raping the poor casino for $7 an hour playing fullpay deuces, his significant other is dumping $150 an hour at the Whoopee Golly “penny” slots. So they identify Mr. SVPP; they no-mail him; they bar him; they have security put dents in his car; and guess what: they no longer are losing that $7 an hour. They are also no longer winning that $150 an hour, because when Mr. SVVP left, his wife left, too.
DUH!!!!! And casinos wonder why they’re not as profitable as they think they should be.
I’ve been saying this for years to anyone that might listen (but no casino have to date). Casinos are slowly self destructing due to their greed and they won’t realize it until it’s way too late. We are replacing our usual Spring trip to Las Vegas with a trip to New Orleans this year.
I figure this article will get lots of comments. Like most, my local casino has cut comps, pay tables, etc. There’s basically one good machine left(which I play almost exclusively). I figure when I finally get my much-deserved dealt royal either I or that machine will be gone. I recently had a conversation with the person I am guessing would be the one most likely to make that call. I told him (with only a little exaggeration) that when I go I take about 10 (mostly) slot players with me.
Great stuff Jean, are you on Twitter by chance?
If I “Start 2007 in a Winning Way” then I need a time machine. My favorite story is when casinos ban people for getting a dealt royal. I have heard of numerous instances of casinos banning players and escorting them out when this happens. My favorite is a person who was playing and staying at Wynn. He got a dealt royal on $5 Five play so each royal was worth $20k for a total of $100k. Once he got paid, security came over and told him he would have to leave the casino and he was not welcome back. He told them he was staying at the casino and they went up to the room and made him pack. What a bunch of jerks.
“Am I just an old grouchy senior longing for the “good ole’ days”?”
Jean, NO you’re not! Remember back to when you wrote your first two books: what was the percentage of gambling revenue of casinos compared to today? Outside Las Vegas, this is killing the gaming industry, with cities such as Tunica & Atlantic City, seeing their gambling industry die off, after years of steep decline.
Unlike airlines and hotels which are mandatory to travelers, casinos are just an entertainment vice. People don’t need them or their services. BS fees like Parking, Resort, ATM, early/late check-in/check-out, pet, wireless, media, fees and others; have killed the hugely successful business model of Benny Binion and others!
Jean, you’re a TR Seven Stars member: so are people like former Harrah’s/Caesars Chairman Garry Loveman good for either players, or individual investors? Is a policy that drives way casino players a good idea, for a casino company? Is it a good thing, when even IGT is concerned about the lower levels of slot play (less income to IGT), which is caused by excessive casino greed?
Jean, when you go to Las Vegas do you consider yourself much less valuable to a casino than a once-or-twice-a-year LA club patron? By their actions, this is what Las Vegas casinos are saying to you (the high spending casino customer): no one but Millennials matter anymore; even though they have little money and you do? Does this make any sense, yet this is the world/country we currently live in!
This isn’t just limited to casinos. Bean counters have killed a lot of businesses. This is what happens when companies are run by CEOs who have no work experience in their company’s field. Caesars’ CEO worked for GE & Hertz. MGM’s CEO was a securities analyst on Wall Street. Guys like this have no clue how a casino actually should run, but they are the guys in charge. And they listen to other guys who don’t have a clue either.
I’m only in my 40s. I remember when casinos gave decent comps and most casinos made decent profits.