Can You Still Do It? – Part 3
Okay, some specifics as I promised in Part 2.
CHOICE OF GAME
When Brad and I started playing VP, we mostly played Full Pay Deuces Wild (FPDW) because it had the highest EV of any game we knew about at the time. We would sometimes play 9/6 Jacks or Better when we found it with a promotion that made it as good a play or better than our trusty FPDW. We had to fly from Indiana to Reno or Las Vegas to find these plays.
Okay, can you find one of those same situations today? In Las Vegas and Reno, for sure. Perhaps also, if you live near the Gulf Coast or Atlantic City or an Indian casino. However, if you want to play FPDW today, you will have to travel, as we did, to Las Vegas or Reno. I know many players today are doing the same type of plays we did twenty-five years ago, and some still play nothing but FPDW.
After several years of sticking with our two basic games, we added new games to our stable, i.e., 10/7 Double Bonus ( DB), and Not-so-Ugly-Deuces (NSUD – 99.7%). Students of VP today will need to learn new games too.
DENOMINATION/BANKROLL
When we started out, we played only quarters – and we stayed at that level for four years. For awhile we had only a $3000 bankroll and we didn’t come close to losing it all. However, a few years in we hit a long losing streak and were close to the bottom of that barrel – and right about the time “48 Hours” was filming us and we were showing them how to be successful low-roller gamblers. Fortunately, we gave the show a happy ending by winning a car at the Stardust and when we sold the car back to the dealer we replenished our bankroll. However, we decided that $3000 was cutting it too close and from then on we always had at least $5000 at our disposal to play quarters. We never like being very near the bottom of the barrel.
Today you might not be quite as “safe” with $5000 to play FPDW because you may be playing with fewer extra benefits than we did. It takes $5800 to have only a 5% ROR (risk of ruin). To be super safe and have only a 1% chance of going broke you may be surprised that you need $8800. (There is never a zero chance of going broke.)
EXTRAS
The reason we never really absolutely needed more than a $3000 bankroll while we were playing only quarters was that we never played VP without some extras outside the EV of the game. From the very beginning – and, in fact, to this very day – I have chased extra benefits like a woman possessed. Why? I have always run a little scared gambling. The fear of going broke is a strong motivating factor for me – and I think a little fear of this kind is a valuable safeguard for all gamblers.
The kinds of extras available for video poker players have varied over the years. At first it was same-day cashback, and then it gradually changed to free-play bounce-back. But some extras have lasted, albeit in various forms down through the years: free tournaments; promotions for various VP hands, i.e., card-of-the-day, and other slot club benefits; check-cashing bonuses; and drawings. And the quarter player still can find extra value today, mining in the promotion fields, with some powerful extras we didn’t have back when we started, i.e., multiple-point days.
AN ASSIGNMENT
I have more advice – don’t I always – even when you don’t ask for it? 🙂 But before I write Part 4, I want to stop a minute here and give you an assignment. Before you complain about not being able to find good games or good plays, go to vpFREE2 and do a thorough exploration under the heading of “Games and Machines.” Choose a game you want to play (or learn to play), one with the desired paytable. Choose your comfortable denomination and # of lines. Choose the format, whether simple Standard or an exotic like Spin Poker or Ultimate X. Finally choose the section of the country where you want to play. Click on “Search.” Do that for each “good” game with a strategy you know or could learn.
When you have found some possible “good” games, click on the “Slot Club” information for each casino where they are found to see what slot benefits you can add to those games.
Now you will be prepared for Part 4.
Kevin,
If I understand you correctly, a 25,000 unit bank role is more reasonable, as few people play with perfect strategy. So $1 single line play would need $125,000 and $5 would need a huge $625,000 bank. Though it would seem to me, a place like The Plaza Las Vegas (when you get the Ace level) would work well, with its 100% free play bonus on all Royals? Between cash back and free play earned from royals, this should effect the needed bank role?
Actually, George, you are articulating a huge and common misconception. Jean would be the first to tell you that optimizing your return–whether that’s earning enough to make a living or simply losing as little as possible as a recreational player–is ALWAYS worthwhile. It isn’t a “half empty/half full” mindset. Getting the most value for your money in ANY field of endeavor, gambling or elsewhere, is both sensible and optimal behavior. Labeling being attentive to value and staying away from bad plays/bad values/bad deals as “pessimism” is, more often than not, just an excuse made by people who are too lazy to put forth the effort to find the best deals, the optimum values, etc. And you should realize that even if you’re coming to Vegas for fun and expect to lose money, it’s better to spend/lose, say, $300 than $1200 FOR THE EXACT SAME EXPERIENCE. So MANY people rationalize their losses by saying, “Hey, it’s Vegas, so what the hell!” But when you get home, there’s the depleted bank account and the credit card bills to deal with. Was that weekend in Vegas really worth $1200, especially when simply by doing a few things slightly differently, it could have cost you only $300? I doubt there are many people here to whom that $900 difference would mean nothing.
Kevin,it is all about how you look at it,glass is half empty or half full. If your only source of income is from VP, then it is probably half empty. If you are just trying to have some fun with little or no cost, then it still is half full. Granted many opportunities that were available 5 yrs ago(my point of reference)are no longer there, but new opportunities do continue to show up.
Most people that visit Vegas come with a just for fun gambling bankroll and leave it there. Perhaps the motto should be whatever $$$ come to Vegas stay in Vegas. This and a number other websites can help make that visit a lot more pleasurable and less expensive.
George
Hello Jean,
Thank you for your blog and all your advice. I just wanted to say that we were visiting Vegas from the UK earlier this year and did exactly what you said in your post…
“go to vpFREE2 and do a thorough exploration under the heading of “Games and Machines.”
I spent couple of weeks before we went learning the correct strategy on an old computer game I had. We also cut out loads of coupons to use 🙂
We spent hours in Four Queens playing 9/6 JoB. We played various denominations and I even hit four of a kind 🙂 Our bankroll lasted for ages with your advice.
I would say Downtown LV has the best casinos in the world. There is nothing like it in UK or Europe where I have visited many casinos. I understand that the conditions have become harder for VP players but anybody with access to LV has a vibrant, competitive gaming market with great value in my opinion.
Is there anywhere to see the 48 hours show that featured you??
Look forward to your next posts.
In the past 3 months I have lost my entire bankroll playing what I thought were the same machines I built that bankroll with over the past few years. I have gone 8 cycles without a royal flush. Whether you want to admit it or not, something has changed.
George, I was referring to 10/7 DB and its tiny edge. You can’t discuss RoR meaningfully except in the context of +EV games; the needed bankroll to play a -EV game is infinite. In point of fact, it’s even worse than you think. To achieve a 5% risk of ruin at 10/7 DB with zero cashback, you need 24,114 betting units (five coins), or over $120,000. If you could manage an 0.25% cashback, the required bankroll would drop to 9,602 units, or just over $48,000. Divide these amounts by four for quarter play; $30,000 and $12,000. Yes,that much! Two things to learn: the bankroll you need is MUCH bigger than you think, and cashback makes a huge difference, Since there’s nowhere on the planet I know of where you could get more than 0.1% cashback for 10/7 DB, you should figure that 20,000 betting units is barely adequate to sustain your play long-term. And THAT’S if you play perfectly!
SO then I take it Dollar play needs a full $50,000 in bankroll, if quarter play needs a full ten Ten Grand? So does this mean then $5 play needs more than $250k?
Jean, when I think of bonuses and benefits, I always play a little at Casino Royale. Now, their pay schedules are not the best, but they give me $50 in free play every time I show up, plus among the 10 or so coupons are three coupons for VP worth $90, which I always seem to cash. They are for any four of a kind ($25.00); four 7s/8s/or 9s ($25.00); and $40 for a straight flush. This is for quarter play on non-wild vp games. So, I play about 4-6 hours there on a four day trip and over the past 8 years or so have NEVER walked out of there a loser. Lucky…yes. But the extra $90 in cash and extra $50 in free play certainly helps.
As you know, I’m diamond with Caesar’s/Harrah’s, so I do a lot of play there – always get $300-500 in free play plus a junior suite for free…..and I PLAY MOSTELY QUARTERS! I’ll play dollars with the free play and perhaps more when my bankroll can take it. My host almost always takes care of all food charged to the room, even a couple of meals at Ruth’s Chris, so long as my overall play warrants it. So, for those who play enough for a host and are of a mindset that the only comps they can get for food are the points they earn, they need to think again. A host is always a big help. Hosts can also ADD additional free play to the mailer/email that may be for only $300 in free play.
Sorry that I’m not addressing bankroll, but your Part 3 was also about comps/free play/cash back. Yesterday I received a voucher for $150.00 in free play in the mail that I can combine with an email offer for $300 in free play for December. I plan to do just that.
Anyone VP player should just do the Assignment. That is just some Great advice and Great VP educational knowledge. IMHO….. dean
Well said, Kevin Lewis.
Base slot club benefits (which often were straight cashback instead of free play or comps) used to be in a range from 0.3%-0.75%, and during promotions, that number was often exceeded. Nowadays, the base rate is virtually always 0.1% or less; if more is offered and/or multiple point days are available, then either the casino has no positive games (South Point) or it drastically slashes that rate for positive games (Stations; Palms). Bottom line: you can’t play FPDW and get piddlypoop in extras. And this, as Jean mentions, greatly affects your RoR. See the Wizard of Odds’ tables: even 0.5% cashback (or the equivalent amount of free play) greatly lowers the required bankroll for a given RoR. Jean was very, very lucky not to bust that $3,000 bankroll; in the late 90s, I lost THREE 3K bankrolls playing only FPDW with 0.5% cashback–in a row. And now, with today’s much worse conditions, you WILL go broke if you play with a $5,000 bankroll or less, and that’s if you only play on the very, very best games. If you play with a razor-thin edge, like 10/7 DB, bring ten grand with you (I have gone through $500+ many times without a four of a kind on 10/7 DB). VP today is like gold mining in that reality TV show “Gold Rush”: you have to make a huge investment, then shovel tons and tons of dirt before you find the tiny hidden flakes of VP gold.