This happened to Brad and me recently.
We received a good offer from an out-of-town casino, RFB including a suite for 3 nights, two concert tickets, 3x points, and a nice cash bonus to boot. We like this casino and were in the mood for a weekend get-away, plus we had friends who would be there at the same time. So we booked the offer.
The day before we were to leave we heard from a friend who had just come back from this casino – and his news was bad. They had downgraded the paytables on every video poker machine that we had planned to play.
What should we do? Cancel the trip? Go ahead and go – collect the cash bonus and soak up the comps – but not play?
What would you do?
What do you think Brad and I did?
You can think about these questions – and if you want, put down your guesses and your ideas in the Comments. In a couple of days, I’ll return to tell you what we did – and why.
by Kerr Mudgeon, on April 13 2010 @ 11:13 pm
What should we do? Cancel the trip? Go ahead and go – collect the cash bonus and soak up the comps – but not play?
What would you do?
- A: Go, collect the bonus & get comps.
What do you think Brad and I did?
- A: Went, collected the bonus & got comps; checked out the machines & played the ones with decent paytables.
Had a good time.
by Judy Hinkley, on April 14 2010 @ 12:19 am
First we do some math. Does the 3X points and presumably cash back for points make up for the downgraded paytables? If not, being an advantage player, I know you wouldn’t play.
Next comes the moral question. I believe Casino Marketing Departments send offers based on your expected play considering your past play. I would not feel comfortable taking the offer knowing I wasn’t going to play. I would cancel the reservation, let the Marketing Department (and/or host) know why and explain that I would be happy to return if they go back to the more reasonable paytables.
Soaking up comps and goodies without playing puts you on their you know what list. I don’t like to be on that list. Someday, they might have a change of heart & go back to their old paytables. Then, you will probably be invited back with an offer as good as better.
Maintaining a good and fair relationship with Casinos keeps the offers coming. Take advantage of them and watch the offers dry up.
That’s what I would do and I believe that’s what you did.
by ilgambler, on April 14 2010 @ 3:51 am
I would enjoy it all without playing a cent knowing that I would not be back. Hopefully there would be a nearby casino with playable games.
ILG
by Jim Embrey, on April 14 2010 @ 4:19 am
I would go. After all, visiting with good friends should over-whelm the rotten schedules. And if you play, triple points doesn’t sound too bad. Perhaps that could alleviate some of the damage by poor pay tables.
by Bill, on April 14 2010 @ 4:25 am
You were ready for a weekend away, friends will be there and if the casio has downgraded the pay tables they are not likely to raise them any time soon so you might as well use your comp while you still have one. PLay a limited amount, the 3x helps some. Who knows you may find a machine or two that your friends did not. Little play will likely lower future offers, but if the pay tables are no good, what does it matter.
Bill
by Wade, on April 14 2010 @ 4:32 am
This offers are offered on your past play, so IMHO they are already earned. If you want to the trip, the comps, the cash bonus do so. If you don’t play any, that is your right. If host or casino asks why, you have a great answer – you lowered all your pay tables, so I’m not playing here.
by cliff, on April 14 2010 @ 4:35 am
I think you cancel the trip. I suspect you called your host and shared with them that the decision to lower the paytables makes this trip a non-gaming trip. If you want us to still come we will come enjoy the three days but will not play at all!
by Richard A Hynes, on April 14 2010 @ 5:26 am
I’d go and enjoy myself and just play on their money. If, nothing good was avaliable on their video poker machines you play beacuse you wannt too.. The idea is to have a goodtime and not lose the farm.
by John Terino, on April 14 2010 @ 5:30 am
Go, enjoy your friends, the room, the food, and the show. The casino made the offer so enjoy it. Play as you see fit or not at all, look at it as a free vaction.
by Jack Stevens, on April 14 2010 @ 5:33 am
We would have made the trip as offered and rationalized the 3X points equated to the reduced payout on the preferred machines plus we would have tried different machines. While we like to win, we go to enjoy the atmosphere and the people. You may be beginning to sound that it your every “whim” is not met you’ll stick your nose up in the air and say, “To heck with that casino.”
by Barbara Starnes, on April 14 2010 @ 5:50 am
Hello Jean
In reading your question I don’t know if there are other casinos near by where your invite came from but my answer would be —-I would still go, (since you said you were in the mood for a little get away,) and I would take advantage of all the comps since you obviously earned them with your previous play and then I would look for the correct pay tables at nearby casinos and start earning comps there. If there were no nearby casinos, then I would still go and take advantage of the comps and enjoy a non-gambling weekend on them, but would let them know that changing the odds has cost them my business. So many people don’t even look at the odds so they have no idea when they are changed. That’s what happened in Elgin, Ill. at Victoria. They took away all there single play quarter games. All the odds on the dollar games went down, the deuces wild only pays $100 for a wild royal and when I mentioned that to some of the players they said –what odds? Anyway if you did go, hope you had a good time. Would love to meet you sometime when I’m in Las Vegas.
by arm53, on April 14 2010 @ 5:50 am
Go and stay/play. Stop play when you loose the comp bucks.
by tim, on April 14 2010 @ 6:01 am
hi jean&brad
collect the cash soak up the comps play a little enjoy your selfs. treat this as a free vacation rest up enjoy some free time away from home.
tim
by derick thompson, on April 14 2010 @ 6:21 am
went and played for what was required to keep the account active to the level of comps after inquiring with a host as to what play required. That would be if the 3x points would alleviate the low return of the play depending on how much the downgrade lowered the expected value of the retun on thre game and also considering the value of the comps/cash.
OR…you just played the one armed bandits.
by Mark Feinberg, on April 14 2010 @ 6:46 am
Me thinks…the’frugal’ response would be to take what they offered you, but not throw good $$$$ into bad machines…seems like pretty much of a no-brainer to me!
Enjoy the trip!!!
by Pokerwayne, on April 14 2010 @ 6:59 am
If the value of the offer was enough to get you go then I wouldn’t worry about the paytables for such a short time. Maybe play a lot less, but still give them some action. You probably wouldn’t plan on coming back anyway with the reduced pay schedules. It’s rare that I would turn down free food, rooms and money if I already wanted to go someplace.
Besides, we all know what can happen in the short term.
by mike hendrickson, on April 14 2010 @ 7:59 am
i think you should go, have a good time and enjoy yourself
play smart, and may the casino god’s bless you and brad with the time of your life.
by Dan Federico, on April 14 2010 @ 8:31 am
Jean,
Not sure that there’s all the information I need to make a totally informed decision. What I would do would be based on quite a few things:
1. Are there better opportunities to stay/play closer to home during that same time?
2. What kind of prior relationship did I have with this casino?
3. Any possible repercussion from other properties within their system that might hurt me on future offers down the road?
4. Whether this was a marketing offer or a host offer. If it was a host offer and I knew that I wasn’t going to play, I’d like not do it (unless of course this was a host that jerked me around previously in which case I’d do it with pleasure:)).
On the surface, if I wanted to get away and it was RFB in a suite with some cash up front, I’d take it and not play. We do this now when casinos groups (think MGM Mirage) aren’t smart enough to not compete against each other and send you offers to other properties in their system….where’s the incremental business for them?
Anyway, my answer would be “take it” unless some of the extenuation circumstances above would make me reconsider.
by Laura Reed, on April 14 2010 @ 8:33 am
I think you went and check out the pay tables and then act accordely. Nice three day vacation. maybe you can hit on their cash bonus.
by mel frankel, on April 14 2010 @ 8:37 am
It all depends on what the new paytables are and if with triple points, cash bonus and other comps if the ev was not bad I would still go.
by D. Dragavon, on April 14 2010 @ 8:38 am
Drop down to quarters and eat a smaller loss. Maybe you’ll even get lucky. We call this gambling. Meanwhile enjoy your visit with your friends.
by John Zaroff, on April 14 2010 @ 8:49 am
I would take the offer, not play ( or only play a ‘recreational’ amount) and tell your host why you did what you did.
You accepted an offer based on your knowledge of the play.
Since the play changed, what you signed up for isn’t what you got.
You already made your travel plans, maybe have airline tickets already. The casino offer is an enticement to get you to play. Since the play is no longer attractive, their enticement did not work. They can choose not to send you a future enticement but they should offer the current offer and you aren’t obligated to play a nickel.
by Jerry, on April 14 2010 @ 9:14 am
I will guess that you went, and searched for some other video poker machines worth playing. I would have played blackjack or poker. In Biloxi, Beau Rivage recently added a bank of $1 96 JOB machines.
by DICK GOODMAN, on April 14 2010 @ 9:22 am
I hope you went and used the comp’s but gambled elsewhere
by Len Zielinski, on April 14 2010 @ 9:46 am
A free suite for 3 nights, is still a free vacation and like any planned vacation, your food and accommodations are the 2 most expensive parts of any vacation.
I would think the frugal gambler and Brad went, enjoyed the concert took a good book to read, and enjoyed the SWEET suite life and played her FREE REWARD play on them fun penny slots now, or even tried some higher denoms and played slots only. Or maybe even played that video BJ or Roulette game if that was available. Because that’s what I do now since casino Windsor changed all their good VP to VERY bad pay tables. I would rather take the chance playing slots, (and not really knowing what the % is set at, and just have fun with it, and expect to lose), then playing the bad VP, where you know what the percentage is set at. As you are playing the bad VP, and if you are losing, you keep asking yourself, why am I even playing this bad game…. lol It’s more of a mind game at that point, because you know in your head, you just can’t justify that play on a bad VP game.
With the slots, you just question nothing and go with the luck because there is no skill involved in it.
I can’t wait to find out what you did now Jean…
-Len in Bay City, Michigan.
by George Carlson, on April 14 2010 @ 9:54 am
The cash bonus , 3 free nights and 3X points and being with friends at a free concert offsets the lower pay schedule. Suggest you and friends rent a car and take a day trip or two , go to nice restaurants , limiting your vp play. But as for me , I’d rather be hammering the machines and going home a day early. Hoping you had good luck. George C.
by James Perkett, on April 14 2010 @ 10:55 am
Pull a Rob Singer and go and enjoy the mini vacation. Take the cash and put it in your pocket if you are not required to play it to win it. If there is another casino near by, go check it out. Or, take a good book and spend it in your room reading when you are not with your friends.
by Rick Kavin, on April 14 2010 @ 11:05 am
Go, collect the comps, check out the machines for
yourself and maybe play a small amount.
by Mikey, on April 14 2010 @ 11:25 am
There is still an OVERALL value to your trip that can be calculated. So, the most relevant piece of information is how downgraded those machines became. Factor in your cash bonus and other perks, and it still could be a good deal. “Soaking up the comps” is something I never recommend unless you are 100% sure you want to burn that bridge-and, of course, you’re also certain you won’t see any nasty little credit card “surprises” at checkout.
by Rod McElvain, on April 14 2010 @ 11:31 am
I hope you went, took advantage of the comps, enjoyed the company of your friends, and told someone in management at the casino that you had planned on playing but when you got there and found out they had taken out all the good video poker games you decided you couldn’t make yourself do so. (They don’t need to know that you had advance warning of the changes. You might well not have known.)
by Dean, on April 14 2010 @ 1:40 pm
I’d go and take advantage of the comps provided. I believe offers are earned through previous play and you earned that offer in prior visits. Unfortunately, this visit may be your last and (as an offer after zero play this weekend is not likely)….however, would you go back anyways with pay tables as they are now?
by jerry scheer, on April 14 2010 @ 2:29 pm
you should take advantage of the comps and stiff them but have a good time there
by RB! Mays, on April 14 2010 @ 3:48 pm
Hey Now!
I’ll bet y’all went for it, and only played your bonuses and enjoyed the company..
by Carmela, on April 14 2010 @ 3:50 pm
I would go and collect the comps, cash bonus,and I wouldn’t play. If you decide to go have a good time.
by Kevin Lewis, on April 14 2010 @ 4:25 pm
Absolutely. Go ahead and accept the offer. The offer was not, I assume, contingent on play–so you were never obligated to play even if the VP was decent.
I would go there, enjoy the surroundings, visit with your friends, go to the concert, take the free cash, and then just as you are leaving, contact your host, and say, “Gee, I would have liked to play your video poker machines, but the pay tables are just too bad.” Thank him for the casino’s hospitality and emphasize that you are happy to play fullpay (not necessarily 100%) machines such as 9/6 JOB, but you really can’t afford to (whether that’s true or not) lose three or five times as much on those bad machines, not at the stakes you play. I would not be surprised if this went DIRECTLY to the slot department and down the throat of the ignorant boob who made the decision to short all the paytables and alienate the casino’s best customers.
Knowing your philosophy, and guessing that you largely agree with the things I’ve said, I guess that you went ahead anyway, had a good time, but played no VP while you were there.
by james, on April 14 2010 @ 5:30 pm
I’m guessing that you played the best pay tables available to the least amount you were expected to play. You also collected all the comps and cashback that were coming to you.
by Thomas Gabrielli, on April 14 2010 @ 6:17 pm
I think you did what I would have done: canceled the trip, just to send out a message to the casino that the downgraded vp machines are not acceptable.
by Gerda Sisson, on April 14 2010 @ 8:08 pm
I think you didn’t cancel your trip . The offer you received was based and earned on previous play and I think you took advantage of it especially since a meeting with friends there was planned at the same time . Since paytables were downgraded on every video poker machine since your last stay I would have either played at a much lower denomination than you usually play or I would have checked out other games such as a good Blackjack game (if available) which I know you and Brad used to play in the past too . In addition I would have enjoyed the company of my friends and made a fun 3 day trip out of the offer even though the video poker situation would have been disappointing . – A similar situation happened to us . Living in Columbus, Georgia we take monthly trips to Biloxi since my husband retired . We always stayed at Beau Rivage , then one time months ago we arrived and all video poker paytables had been severely downgraded . That was very disappointing especially since we didn’t have a clue that that was in the making . while there took most of our play to other casinos on the coast and even though we like the Beau are staying elsewhere now .
by linda, on April 14 2010 @ 8:09 pm
I think that you would still go, to “soak up the comps” and get the other freebies and then let them know that you are there and be available for future mailings.
by Andy, on April 14 2010 @ 8:33 pm
I think that you added in all the comps and determined the expected value of your play would be at 100% or higher and took the trip. I know you would never stiff the casino and it sounded like to much fun not to go. So, don’t worry – be happy!
by John, on April 14 2010 @ 9:11 pm
Hi Jean, I’m a former LV resident and I love reading all of your blogs. I would say go for the weekend. After all, free rooms, comps, etc. is hard to turn down – I know I couldn’t. I would probably cut back on my gambling if paytables had been reduced, but I would still take advantage of the freebies. Hope you and Brad are doing great! A dedicated reader, John
by margaret smith, on April 15 2010 @ 3:23 am
You went!
I would go and see why the changes were made and why the casino would risk people returning if the casino were changing the rules.
by margaret smith, on April 15 2010 @ 3:25 am
you went.
I would go and see why the casino changed their offer, certainly would not speak well of them to change the offer i would think
by Jeffrey Small, on April 15 2010 @ 5:33 am
Take advantage of the free stuff. Just don’t play much!
by Jim, on April 15 2010 @ 5:44 am
The fact that you like the casino and needed a weekend get-away tells me you would not cancel the trip. You have a nice suite for 3 days and 2 concert tickets and cash bonus. Go for it. Take whatever they are giving.
The big question is whether to play or not with the downgraded pay tables. I think the Queen Of Comps would factor in the 3x points and comps to see if you would still have a positive game or not. My guess is you would play for recreation if it is not a positive game and enjoy the vacation like a tourist. If the game is positive, business as usual.
Either way I have a feeling you and Brad came out ahead.
by cliff jones, on April 15 2010 @ 5:44 am
I think you called your host and shared that since the paytables were lowered you were going to pass on this trip. Unless they wanted to just have you come and enjoy their offer on the house–but I suspect they did not invite you to come not play.
by cliff jones, on April 15 2010 @ 5:46 am
tried to post twice–I think you did not go. You likely called the host and shared why. Then if they offered you to still come and just enjoy their company–you might have accepted that.
by Hazel Myrseth, on April 15 2010 @ 7:13 am
I wouldn’t cancel the trip. I’d go, enjoy the concert and other comps but probably wouldn’t play as much as I normally would have.
by Edward Masuoka, on April 15 2010 @ 8:51 am
Not knowing how much comps you are receiving and what the VP pay tables are: I would say that if the expenditure is less then the comps you would go; if the expenditure is more then your comps you would cancel.
by Mike, on April 15 2010 @ 11:35 am
I would take the trip, enjoy the comps, minimally gamble and write a letter to the casino gaming manager, or general manager explaining why your gambling was not at as high a level as in past visits because they had made it more difficult for you to potentially win. Thank him for his past generosity and indicate that you would be back in the future if they changed their pay tables and hence your opportunity to actually win.
by jim miller, on April 15 2010 @ 1:59 pm
sit back and enjoy the moment.
by leo, on April 15 2010 @ 5:43 pm
Go, check out thr paytables, if they are changed, don’t play there, enjoy the comps.
by leo, on April 15 2010 @ 5:44 pm
go anyway
by Ruth Cookson, on April 15 2010 @ 5:45 pm
I think you went ahead with the trip. It’s a place you like, friends were there, and it was free. I don’t see a downside.
by D. Dragavon, on April 15 2010 @ 7:57 pm
Step down to quarters, take a small loss and enjoy your visit. Maybe you’ll even get lucky and win.
by Joy, on April 16 2010 @ 4:43 am
I would go ahead and go, play a little bit, take advantage of the comps and have a good time.
by TOM STRANGSTALIEN, on April 16 2010 @ 5:12 am
Since it appears you’re in the mood for a get away, and that you will be seeing treasured friends, I will say to go ahead and make the trip. You’re playing at triple points, so despite the fact that you’re favorites have been downgraded, you will research and determine the best play that exists. With triple points, I’m assuming you will be close to positive expectation territory, and that doesn’t even take the free cash into consideration. Life is about experiences. Great friends, a nice venue, a concert, a getaway…..all for break even? Ahhhhhh life is good.
by david manning, on April 16 2010 @ 5:37 am
I would take advantage of the RFB, enjoy the suite, either go to the concert, (if I liked the performer(s)) or sell the tickets, spend the cash, or play it. Finally, look for new opportunities in the casino that have a decent play schedule. Free is free, not to be complained about!
You, as I beleive, would do the same thing.
Dave Manning
ps I am available to take your spot at a minutes notice.
by Bluechip, on April 16 2010 @ 6:56 am
I think you and I would handle this differently — and your way would be more honorable.
I’d go for sure. After looking forward to a gambling trip, nothing short of a major emergency would keep me away. I’d stay at the place that offered the RFB with suite and I’d play at least the cash bonus. I’d probably play some VP (I know, shame on me since the expectation isn’t there) but I’d see if the Blackjack was acceptable. If the area has other casinos, most of my play would go to them. I figure the home casino’s offer was based on past play. They want me to play more while I’m there, but I’m under no obligation to do so.
I think you would still make the trip — to see your friends if nothing else. I think you would talk to your host and explain your disappointment at the changes in pay tables. You’d tell him that you can’t enjoy playing at that level and that’s why you’re taking your business elsewhere. Then you’d head to another hotel/casino, have fun with your friends and play enough to get the room and food comped.
by Frank Wetelainen, on April 16 2010 @ 7:55 am
When they down graded their payout scale they are trying to get more money out of you. I would go and use all the comps I could. I would also talk to the slot manager and tell him why I would not play a tight machine. I don,t mind a 99% machine for a weekend, but when you have 6 5 bonus poker, thats when I quit playing at your Casino
by Steve, on April 16 2010 @ 8:57 am
Not sure what you guys did, but I’d go and take advantage of the perks. Then I’d let the casino know that while I appreciate the offers I’ll not be back nor would I be playing at my normal levels due to the changes they elected to make. Perhaps this would prompt a change in the pay tables on the machines, but more likely result in my being removed from their mailing list. No great loss as I would not go out of my way to visit them anyway.
by Clare Graham, on April 16 2010 @ 1:21 pm
This is what I would do, and I think we have a similar value system:
The paytables aren’t the only reason for the trip, so why pass up all the other good stuff? You have many valid reasons for going: to be with friends, free entertainment and accomodations. The playing part doesn’t have to be an all or nothing proposition, just play through the cash bonus they give you, have a good time. You earned those comps based on past play, you made no commitments to play in the future.