In the last three parts of this series, I talked about “advantage players” and “skilled players.” Some may feel that I look down on “recreational” players. In fact, some of my friends and relatives feel they need to “apologize” when I see them at a slot machine or a video poker game with a really bad paytable.
There is no need for such apologies. What you play in a casino is no reflection on your character. As is true in so much in life, understanding and accepting individual differences is the key to being a valuable member of the human race.
That being said, I guess I will never stop feeling that I would like to help recreational gamblers not lose so much money. I am not judging them; I understand their goal is entertainment, but I want to help them be able to have more fun by showing how to make their bankroll last longer.
The current casino environment that is seeing cuts in all areas is not hitting just the skilled gamblers. The recreational gamblers are feeling the pain in their pockets too. But there are many ways players can stretch a casino bankroll, some that take little or no effort or study: Always use your players card and check at the players club to see what benefits you can collect. Choose lower denomination machines or table games – so you don’t lose so fast.
And just a little bit of study can lead to big gains. I think of the information in my first book, The Frugal Gambler, which was definitely written for the low roller recreational player who wanted to become a little more knowledgeable about casinos. Although I do introduce the idea of skilled video poker play, there is so much more information that a casual gambler could use even if he doesn’t want to go the VP route One chapter covered some of the myths that might hold players back from achieving better financial returns. Another chapter talked about the various games offered by casinos and includes a chart that compares them by how much you would lose per hour on each one. Then you might want to choose those that allow you to lose slower and thus make your money last longer. And I cover other subjects that will help recreational players of all games stretch their bankrolls: using players club benefits, maximizing comps, and looking for coupons and promotions. Then More Frugal Gambling continued with more details on these same subjects plus a special emphasize on the comp system.
I am in the process of updating both of these books, but I am finding that although many of the details and examples need to be revised, most of the basic concepts are just as relevant as they were years ago when the books came out. In fact, they are even more important now since we all need all the help we can get to win more and lose less in the new tighter casino world.
Of course, there are other books you can – and should – go to. You just can’t get too much information. Every author has a different slant on gambling subjects and gives different details that may more specifically be relevant to your game, your particular style or level of play, or your goals.
This is the end of this particular series about adjusting to the rapidly changing casino gambling environment. I hope some of you will share your ideas about this subject in the “Comments” section below. What techniques for coping have you found helpful? I know I haven’t exhausted this subject. I’ve probably forgotten a number of possible ways to adapt. And I am sure I will develop new coping skills in the months and years to come. You can count on my covering them in future blogs – I am addicted to saving money …for myself and for anyone who will listen to me!
Thanks for all you do! The casinos do not have a successful bus. model!!! They are losing money!! And they keep doing the same thing! Stupidity and arrogance. Their gambling revenue is down! They are building retail to get money from leases! It they continue to detheme they will lose more business down the road. Their take is always higher than the paytables! Previous posters illustrated the reasons already. I still enjoy the game of finding the best tables within my budget and seeking promotions and using the bus system. Good luck to anybody.
First of all I have to thank you for your insight into Video Poker. We started coming to Vegas back in the 90’s after reading your book, and have benefited tremendously from your advice. We’ve been making 3 – 4 trips every year since, and still enjoy it. Over the years we have definitely noticed the diminished pay tables for Video Poker, especially on the strip. Our last trip to Caesars last month, we were very disappointed to see that their pay tables have been decimated. The problem is that we still enjoy the whole strip atmosphere and of course we still want to play. We just get to play less now, but still think it’s a good deal since we manage to get rooms and food comped from our quarter single line play. We have noticed that even with advantage play at some of the local casinos (Stations), we haven’t done much better with the video poker wins. I’m not sure why, since we try and play all the good games. We just figure it’s entertainment and you either have to deal with the diminished pay tables and less play, or don’t play anymore. That’s not an option for us since we both enjoy it. I look at it this way, if you were to go to Disney, you would have to pay for everything (room, food, entertainment, parking, water, etc.), and it would cost about the same. At least you still have a chance of winning in Vegas, even with the bad pay tables. I don’t know of any other vacation you can take and have a chance of not spending your entire vacation budget, and even have a chance of bringing extra $ home. That’s the beauty of Vegas. Just my 2 cents on the issue.
The pay tables for VP at Caesar’s properties have gotten terribly absurd! At the bars now, the 4 Aces only get 150 coins while playing BP instead of the 400 coins they used to pay; that is just one “play” that has changed for the worse!
My dear Mrs Scott,
The strip casinos have moved on from decent low roller pay tables to catering to whales and those that want to eat at their pricey buffets, exclusive celebrity restaurants and clubs, pay for their rooms (with exorbitant resort fees) and shop at the high end stores in their shopping malls. They have found that business model to be working for them and it will continue into the foreseeable future. We moved on years ago, but we don’t whine about it!! We sometimes like to visit various casinos on the strip to see fountains, volcano and the decor of these places, but never, never, never play there.
You can call a certain play at a certain casino over 100% pay back, but if you aren’t lucky enough to hit the royal, straight flush or more four of a kinds than the “long term” average you’re probably going to lose money! And, since most players don’t play eight to ten hours a day seven days a week fifty-two weeks a year, they are never playing in the “long term”. That means the long term EV really doesn’t apply and you need to be lucky if you’re going to have a winning session! I do believe that your play will be extended by choosing the right pay table and using the strategy for that pay table, but I’m realistic enough to know that I need to be lucky in order to have a winning session.
I consider myself to be a skilled recreational player and my wife is a totally recreational player..We come to Las Vegas once a month sometimes twice. I’m a single line quarter/fifty cent player.My wife plays many many different games (including penny slots), but I play only single line 9/6 JoB or 8/5 BP. We play only at properties that have plenty of 9/6 JoB and 8/5 BP (the volatility factor). We play on one card at each property that we stay at and find the comps to be as good as they’ve ever been (win or lose).
I’ve been lucky for thirty + years. My wife not so much. She was very lucky the first few years and now the last couple of years. In between was pretty bad for her, but she always had fun. We’re a team and doing better now than ever before.
May the royals be many and the good times roll for all.
Hi Jean…I’ve enjoyed reading your posts on the casinos cutting VP benefits. As usual you have such a flowing way with words that it makes your writing fun to read. The sad truth though is I only read it now because I enjoy your writing style. The wife and I started going to LV in 2002 and averaged about 4 trips a year. I’ve always liked the idea of advantage play, as in my opinion what better way to have fun in the casinos than to beat them! So I stumbled across your books early on and spent many hours reading and practicing until I could play several different games and pay schedules without error. However over the past several years it seems that each new trip would find some previous “advantage” no longer available. That plus the fact I felt that I was no longer considered “wanted” by the casinos in general. The wife enjoyed the “dumb slots” as I call them and I would only play advantage VP games. So with that formula we almost always went home a loser but not so bad that it would cause us not to want to come back. We both had fun, spent and left our hard earned $’s and then would come home and plan our next trip. Long story short we no longer visit LV much if at all. Even all the comped room offers we used to get dried up so fast it would make your head spin. On top of that the crazy resort fees just drove me insane! In some hotels a comped room included the resort fee and others it did not! I just do not like the way LV is doing business nowadays and it is a shame as we used to really enjoy our visits to your city very much. I always had hoped to run into you and Brad sometime just to say hello and thank you for giving me a fun hobby for my old age. I’m guessing that’s one bucket list item I probably won’t fulfill. I just don’t see LV ever going back to a reasonable place to play and visit without dropping the kids inheritance there. Well I’ll still be reading your posts in hopes that things do change but like I implied the greedy casinos have run us out and I don’t think they really care one iota. Take care and God Bless You and Brad.
Terry Haile
Post Falls, Id
Thanks for all these years of information and encouragement. You are a treasure. I still am driven to find good pay tables. Those 10/7 DB with progressive at the Four Queens are included in every trip and the comps are good in spite of the new changes.
8/5 bonus is helped enormously at the D Vue Bar with three progressives. There too I manage 2 for 1 offers ( without resort fee) and love that play. When all the progressives are low I find that one coin drop full pay Deuces and play that. Lately, I’ve been thinking that I might care less a out comped rooms and downgrade my play. Palace Station has some full pay in dimes. I think I might entertain myself there all day on my usual bankroll, have the full pay tables, and enjoy the live poker room as well. MyVegas rewards are drying up for Mlife, but not for the Station casinos yet. It might actually be possible for me to book 5 nights in a row on my next trip using MyVegas points and save quite a bit. Some of them will be 2 for 1, perhaps others will not be available, but I think the bottom line will be pretty good. I am unwilling to move up to dollar machines or better just to find good pay tables. The volatility will certainly work to erode my bankroll in spite of the pay tables giving a slight advantage. I’d rather pay for my rooms and play dimes or nickels on full pay tables.
Kevin you have nailed it! The greedy(casinos) will continue to gouge the masses until the masses run out of money. It is far more important today to educate oneself and take advantage of all the meager bones the casinos throw our way while the battle for the dollar continues between us and the casinos bean counters. Keep up the great work Jean for you have been and continue to be one of the real guiding lights.
Hi Jean, Me and my twin bother are just low roller recreational gamblers. we play different games when we go to a casino like slots, electronic roulette, blackjack, video poker. we take about $300 to $400 to play per trip. when we play the bad games like slots we only play the minimum amount to cover all the line. we jump around on slot a lot we $20 here and there. I do miss the old penny slot when the minimum was only 20 or 35 cent when our 20 dollars went along way. we have been lucky were one would hit for $300 to $500 dollars and one time we both had a marathon run on hot hot penny, we play for over 4 hours and when we were done I had lost only 25 cents and he lost 2 dollars. we like the bally electronic roulette because minimum is only a dollar and no timer but like video poker the casino are exchange them for other machines with a 30 second timer and a $10 minimum. Me and my bother was just getting good on 9/6 JOB when the casino in our area started changing the machine to 8/5 JOB. We still go to the casinos but we have cut back the number of days we are in casino. We used to go to A.C. three times a year for two to three days, now we only go once a year and play at the locale casino every couple of month since the Casinos started cutback. my bother and me are team this helps cut the cost of our play so when one is have a bad trip the other can cut the lost because what we do is at the end of the day we combine the money we have and divided in half. The other thing we do to cut the cost down is always use are player card, use the free slot play they send us, and any coupons the casino sends us for meals. We live in the Washington D.C. area next year MGM is opening a new casino with a hotel so we may switch from Caesars since the long drive to A.C. is starting get to us and the new casino is only 20 minutes away and we can return to our own home after the gambling is done. I love writing here and in both of your books.
Been married 50+ years,can’t remember the exact number. Two people with different personalities. She likes Keno (YIKES!)and VP. I like mostly VP.She plays for entertainment while I search for an advantage. She looses less at Keno even though she accepts some of my input on correct VP play. Her Keno rate of play is slow while her VP play is at lightening speed hence the lower loss rate at Keno. Also Keno is generally available ay lower stakes than VP. To each his/her own.
By the way we both love and own all your books. Will forward to the revisions.
The huge, pulsating mass of VP players, and gamblers in general, will always be divided into two groups: those who are willing to put some effort into getting themselves a better deal, and those who feel that during their time in the casino, they should be able to leave their brains in the glove compartment. For the latter group, learning basic strategy at blackjack, the best bets on the crap table, or VP strategy and game selection are just TOO. MUCH. WORK. (whine, whine). The fact of the matter is that casinos make far more money from player stupidity than from the inherent edge of the games–and that even includes slot machines!
It probably all comes down to the Frugal philosophy and mindset. Like you (I suspect), I can’t stand the idea of paying too much for something I could have gotten more cheaply, paying for something at all when I could have gotten it for free, and not making money when I could have been doing so and having just as much fun in the process. But I realize that in Vegas in particular, I’m in a tiny minority. Most people either don’t understand or just don’t care. Hey, you’re in Vegas. You’re SUPPOSED to lose (mumbled through an alcoholic haze). God knows, I’ve wanted to educate the stupid over the years–but now, when I see someone put $20 on the hard eight, or split 6’s against an Ace, or hold 55A at JOB, I just roll my eyes and say nothing.
The reason that Vegas is a ripoff these days is that people are letting it be so–with bad games, high prices, and bullcrap like “resort fees,” it should be a ghost town. But the ploppies come bucketing up I-15 every Friday night like lemmings. Meanwhile, Jean, you are a vox clamatis in deserto. (That said, I’m happy to hear you’re updating your books. I suggest as a title, “How to Squeeze Fourteen Cents in Positive EV Out of the Tightest Casinos in the Universe.”)